In this week’s conversation, we speak with Nigel Rothfels, Professor of History from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Nigel has long been studying the history of ideas we humans have of animals and animal studies, which lucky for us includes all things zoos! Because boy did we have questions upon questions…

And like all good questions and conversations the answer is never “good or bad” is it? It’s complicated. But Nigel patiently walked us through a long history and into some dark corners where we could shine some light.

This conversation was dynamic, heartfelt, respectful, and at moments hilarious. It was such a pleasure to dig deep into a subject that we could push back on, disagree on, learn about, and come away with a sense of being heard but maybe more importantly shift our perspectives and be open to all the grey that complicated stories can offer us.

Also, we talk about Nigel's new edition of his book Savages and Beasts: The Birth of the Modern Zoo coming out in the Spring, and about my new favourite animal conference that he is going to create and all I can say is Jenn and I would be perfect guests on this panel.

Wink.

Thanks for listening,

Lots of Love.

Episode Time Stamps:

Intro: 00:53

Interview: 5:52

TA: 56:50

Show Note Links:

https://www.nps.gov/articles/california-condor-recovery.htm

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